Discuss anything that doesn't fit into any other category here.
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Postby Anubis X » Fri Apr 04, 2003 1:30 pm
If I had a vote it would be yes. For as long as I have read the FC and Muhammad Speaks before, I have never completed one of their articles in its entirety. One could be reading and interesting article in the FC on African affairs,turn the page and there is a large advertisment for Jabril's crazy book asking the question "Is The Honorable Elijah Muhammad Still Physically Alive".No negro he is not! Both Jabril and Tynette are highly esoteric.They both go to UFO conventions and hang with other para normal types. Her association with another nut, the Egyptian Heretic Rashad Khalifah was how Tynetta came about with that crazy #19 BS and sold bro Farrakhan on it. Rashad Khalifah is the inventor of #19 spookology.

Postby Naim88 » Fri Apr 04, 2003 2:19 pm
AS-SALAAM-ALAIKUM

BRO. ANUBIS X THOUGH I WAS FALLING YOU FOR A BRIEF SECOND UNTIL YOU STATED THAT THE HON. ELIJAH MUHAMMAD IS NO LONGER ALIVE!

WHEN DID YOU GET YOUR CONFIRMATION BROTHER I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW!

AND THOUGH I DO NOT AGREE WITH EVERYTHING EITHER ONE OF THE TWO PERSONS YOU MENTIONED. YOU CAN FIND TRUTH IN WHAT IS BEING WRITTEN BY THEM IF YOU PROPERLY UNDERSTAND THE MATH OR SCIENCE THAT IS BEING ESPOUSED BY EITHER ONE OF THEM.

HON. SIS TYNETTA MUHAMMAD THOUGH I HAVE A SLIGHT DIFERRENCE WITH HER IS TRYING TO SHOW THE BELIEVERS SOMETHING OF VALUE TO THEM. REMEMBER THOUGH WE MAY NOT AGREE WITH THE ENTIRETY OF SOME OF THE IMAMS AND OR SCHOLARS WE CAN SURMISE OR SHOULD BE ABLE TO SEE TRUTH WHEN IT IS PRESENTED NO MATTER WHO IT IS COMING FROM BRO. ANUBIS X.

Postby Guest » Fri Apr 04, 2003 5:59 pm
Allah is the inventor of the mystery surrounding "19".

Read the Holy Qur'an.
Postby Code 19 Deceit » Fri Apr 04, 2003 6:39 pm
Code 19 Deceit


Code 19 is a recently (1970`s) founded doctrine (though there are some who claims the opposite). At the first sight it appears quite attractive to many people, particulary to those who believe or/and would like to believe in the Quran. The doctrine (or/ and its proponents) asserts that it serves as a God given sign/stamp of divine authorship of The Quran. Its proponents claim that it explains many verses of the Gods Book(particularly Quran) whose meaning was unknown until these days. Allegedly, it represents a God given mathematico-numerical sign/system embeded in the Quran which has remained hidden until 20th century, when was the Gods plan to reveal it, in a scientific age, when all things are looked, examined and judged by science, logic and its tools- in the most appropriate time. "The sign" could be easy appreciate by almost anyone cause it is"easy to understand and impossible to immitate", it is, as its proponnents insist, an objective, scientific and physical evidence of Gods existence and/or of the divine autorship of the Quran" -a sign perfectly suitable to the scientifico-sceptical age in which we live.

Many people claimed that it convinced them of divine design of the Quran and increased their faith. And truly, when you read the books which propagate the code its quite hard to stay calm or unimpressed by numerico- mathematical featurs presented, as well as, verses of the Quran allegedly related to it. The proponents of the code plea that all the people should acept the theory. They claim that it brings benefits to all; convince christians, jews and muslims, convince atheists, introduces a new wind in the world of theology- according to Rashad Khalifa, who is according to many, discoverer of the code- (i am paraphrasing):"we don't have to believe anymore now we clearly know that God, J-day, eternal life is true/reality".

However, it is only true at the first sight, this is only what it appears to be, after a superficial and non detail study/research, particularly, if the research wasn't carefull and guided by the precepts set by The God`s Criterion (Quran). The attractive outlook of the code and its alleged usefullnes, intelectual challenge and all other alleged benefits of the theory are just a misleading mask. Under the surface the things are Quite opposite. Under the surface a monster is hidden. Old proverb "All is not gold that glitters" has found its full fulfilement in the case of the Code 19. Code 19, more precisely, that what is propagated as the code, can not benefit, nor guide, nor increase faith but only contributes to the opposite and can do only harm and misguidance and provoke Gods wrath upon its believers and folowers.

It was propagated as a scientific work but it appears that its was tottaly unscientific work, full of errors, false datas, unscientific methods etc. It prove itself as a total negation of the science(and its proponents proved themselves as negators and neglectors of science). It was propagated as a physical evidence, but finaly it was exposed as a hearsay. It fights against the "blind faith" , yet it requires an incredible amount of it and actually based itself on that very same thing. It claimed to increase faith, but what it has done was exactly the opposite. It claimed bringing certainity and firm belief in the book, but it actualy brought uncertainity to its believers and folowers and made them doubt the book and reject its various parts (be it in theory or praxis)and made them reject the main principles of the book and forced them to conjecturing and ascribing partners to the God, it forced them to breaking of Gods laws and to sectarianism. Its an irony of idolworship.

While, was he introducing, presenting, proving and defending his theory, Rashad Khalifa(as well as his followers, supporters and like minded people-believers in the code) used the same sectarian methods which he was allegedly fighting against. Rashad`s and the believer`s and follower`s of the code treatment, understanding and interpretation of the Quran is a clasiscal example of abusive usage, treatment and interpretation of quranic ayats (see 3/7). It is performed in a typical sunni/shia sectarian style proving again again that code 19 doctrine is but a clasical sunnie/shia sect hidden behind "quran alone" mantle.
Besides rejection of the hadith (a source of religion not approved by God and the Quran), in almost every other quranic topic they treated Quran as, and folowed the rules of interpretation set by, their ancestors rather than by The God and the Quran itself.

Here are few of things that are typical of this sect whenever they are engaged in understanding/interpreting of the Quran and justyfying and proving their point of view. You will find almost all of this pattern true in almost all cases:
-The Verse mistranslated
-The Verse (or words of a verse) taken totally out of context
-The verse isolated of the rest of the Quran
-If correlated with/to other verses then its done in a worse manner and with/to those verses who are totally uncorrelated with the subject
-Most fantastic and ludicrous allegorical meaning attached to the verse
-Verses explained with their human inovations, by humans and not by God, that is, by other verses of Quran.
-All this supported by/with numerology and mathemathics or divinely inspire d sayings of Rashad (they have their own set of hadiths- numerical, as well as, textual-appendices of Rashads translaton of The Quran), very often presenting false datas, making manipulation with the metod of counting, changing criterias of counting and performing calculations. The Numbers are studied in a very subjective way and allways changing criteria of how and what is looked for, except that it must be somehow related to 19, Rashad, years of the discovery and other years from code `s or Rashads biography etc. And what is most important -the confirming and proving of something by the numerology is NOT approved by God.

3/7
"He it is Who has revealed the Book to you; some of its ayats are decisive(muhkamaat), they are the basis/source/returning place(ummu) of the Book, and others are mutashabihat/undecisive(their meaning is not well established); then as for those in whose hearts there is perversity they follow the part of it which is undecisive(-mu-tashabih), seeking to mislead/discord and seeking (to give it their own?) interpretation. But none knows its interpretation except Allah. And those who are firmly rooted in knowledge say: We believe in it, it is all from our Lord; and none do mind except those having understanding"

What we will present here to you is a result of our long study of the topic. We judged the code by Gods given criteria in the book. But what you will find here is not simply restricted only to exposing and disproving of a teaching of an obscure, blasphemous, and misleading sect. If that was the case, we believe such a huge work would be almost redundant and unusefull.We believe you can learn much, much more from our work. You can learn a principles of the Quran-you can atain some of the knowledge of The Gods book-Gods teaching,what is of the primary importance for the final destiny of each man, and you can learn a lot about man his and his tendencies to distort the book, creates sect, reject Gods message, make mischief on the earth , lie upon God, and quarell with Him(which is important to avoid). We believe that all inumerable sects(strongly condemned by God) use to appear in a certain pattern, in a way common to all the sects.

Their innumerable and most amazing differences are only superficial manifestations of the real (and allways the same) internal causes of the schismes. We offer you a remedy for sectarianism directly from the book of God.

Besides , that is a metod of God himself, throughout the book you can find many occurences of Gods teaching humanity through- first citing and bringing examples of the wrong deeds and beliefs of the people and then exposing their absurdity and defining the correct deeds and beliefs and giving different divine decrees in regerds of every particular topic.

Enjoy our humble efforts and work.

http://64.70.134.35/code_19_deceit.htm

Postby Anubis X » Sat Apr 05, 2003 4:35 am
Bro Naim88, The burden of proof is on those who claim that the HEM still physically alive. I do not need to prove he is dead.No one has seen Mr Muhammad since Feb 1975 when he was buried. Proclaiming that the HEM is still alive and is imminantly returning is as provable as the christian claim that Jesus is alive at the right hand of the father and coming back. It is intersting how Jabril often uses biblical symbology and the analogy of Jesus returning when speaking of Mr. Muhammad's alleged return. This is because this teaching itself is absolutely derrived from christianity.

Some truth can be garnered from almost everything. As to whether it is worth while to sift through much of that which is of little value to obtain it is debatable.
Postby Rashid in Los Angeles » Sat Apr 05, 2003 6:20 am
As-Salaam-Alaikum: To The Followers Of The Honorable Elijah Muhammad.


No My Bother Anubis X it is a Question of Belief in The Honorable Elijah Muhammad as the Messenger of Allah. If you believe that he is truly the last Messenger of Allah, then you believe every last word that the Saviour taught him. Now the story of Moses in the Bible did not happen, that is our history today. Now Moses was with the people for 40 years, and he was without his people for 40 years. In the time that Moses was gone up in the Mountains, the People said that he was Dead, but he was not! He still had a work to do for Allah on behalf of his People. His job was to Destory Pharaoh by drowning him in the Red Sea, and he had a job to deliver his people of of Bondage. Now The Messenger teaches that Pharaoh the real one the Bible is talking about was drowned in a Red Sea Of Fire, and America is that Pharaoh of the Bible. We are not out of hell are we? We are still slaves in America so the Honorable Elijah Muhammad work is not done. And Allah would not give his Mission to Another person. What we fail to realize is that Gods can live a 1000 years according to the Messenger. Master Fard Muhammad is All Powerful, he controls every atom in the Universe, don't you think he can save his last Messenger from death? According to the Bible No Man know where and when Moses Dead, But Allah. No One knew where his Grave was, but Allah. You are saying that Everyone Knew when he Dead and where. This is not Me Saying this, This is Bible and this is our History, and the Messenger said that all of the Prophecy most come true. Now when Moses went up into the Mountains did anyone of his People see him for 40 years? "No", this is why they said he was Dead. But he was Not Dead he with Allah getting his Second Phases of his Mission. That was to kill Pharaoh and take his people out of Egypt! Bernard Cusheer did not come up with this by himself, this is what he was taught by the Messenger. Infact the Name of that book of his came from the Messenger, This is the one we need not look for another, that came from the Messenger, not Bernard. Remember we are still in Bondage and we are not free, so his Mission is not Up Yet! Now The Messenger taught this to Bernard Cushmeer in Phoenix in the Med 60's. It was on some of the Table Talks, I know because I have some of that One That the Messenger taught him this. Don't get Mad at Bernard Cushmeer because he is talking about what you have know knowledge of.

As-Salaam-Alaikum: To The Believes



Your Brother
Rashid in Los Angeles

Postby ira alim » Sat Apr 05, 2003 1:03 pm
the spooky articles by bro. jabril & is.tynetta DO NOT REPRESENT THE MESSENGER'S TEACHINGS.they repreent THEIR INTERPRETAIONS OF THE MESSENEGR'S TEACHING.THE MESSENGER TAUGHT no life after death.i know the slick spiritual scientist are saying he never died.i simply say bring your PROOF.reciting scripture IS NOT PROOF.providing your deepest & sincere interprtation is NOT PROOF.niether sis.tynetta nor bro jabril believes that THE HONORABLE ELIJAH MUHAMMAD IS MESSENGER OF ALLAH TODAY.they believe as farraCON has instructed them to believe.so regardless to whom or what, when you teach that THE MESSENEGER IS ALIVE,i run from you.

Postby Anubis X » Sat Apr 05, 2003 1:28 pm
The reason why some hold tenaciously to this fallacious teaching about the HEM still being alive is because they secretely or subconsciously still
love Jesus(in the christian sense) :) Jabril found his market and continues to capitalize on it. Look at it,when Jabril presents his theory it is most often backed up with scripture from the christian bible pertaining to Jesus.Is it not? This is not an Islamic perspective on Jesus.It is a Christian one. No one has shown that Mr. Muhammad ever taught anything like that,quite the contrary, he was opposed to such teaching and if he were alive he would come get that negro for perpretrating such henious falsehood.

Postby Naim88 » Sat Apr 05, 2003 3:01 pm
Anubis X wrote:The reason why some hold tenaciously to this fallacious teaching about the HEM still being alive is because they secretely or subconsciously still
love Jesus(in the christian sense) :) Jabril found his market and continues to capitalize on it. Look at it,when Jabril presents his theory it is most often backed up with scripture from the christian bible pertaining to Jesus.Is it not? This is not an Islamic perspective on Jesus.It is a Christian one. No one has shown that Mr. Muhammad ever taught anything like that,quite the contrary, he was opposed to such teaching and if he were alive he would come get that negro for perpretrating such henious falsehood.


AS-SALAAM-ALAIKUM

BRO. ANUBIS X, LET ME FIRST SAY AFTER BROTHER RASHID HAS JUST GIVEN YOU THE TRUTH TO WHOM BRO. BERNARD CUSHMEER RECEIVED HIS KNOWLEDGE CONCERNING THE TRUTH OF THE MESSENGER I REALLY DON'T NEED TO SAY MUCH BUT THIS.

YOU AND I UPON ENTERING ISLAM ARE BOUND TO THE BELIEVE NOT JUST IN MASTER FARD MUHAMMAD AND HIS FIRST AND LAST MESSENGER THE HON. ELIJAH MUHAMMAD BUT WE SAY AS MUSLIMS WE BELIEVE IN ALL OF THE PROPHETS OF ALLAH. TO WHICH THE HON. ELIJAH MUHAMMAD TEACHES US THAT IT WAS NOT CHRISTIANITY THAT JESUS OR ANY OF THE PROPHETS TAUGHT BUT ISLAM. FO READ HIS THE MESSENGER TAKE ON THE WHAT TRUTH THE PROPHETS REPRESENTED HE SAID IT WAS ISLAM AND THAT ALLAH COULD NOT HAVE GIVEN THEM ANYTHING TO TEACH OTHER THAN ISLAM!

Postby Anubis X » Sat Apr 05, 2003 3:31 pm
In my judgement although Jabril writes well he is more confusing than he is rational. This has to do perhaps with his interest in the more esoteric or secret doctrines,which are often clouded in mysticism and coded lanquage. That is why Tynetta an Jabril were so facinated with Rashad Khalifah and his #19 theory,it had all the elements.

Postby Naim88 » Sat Apr 05, 2003 4:56 pm
AS-SALAAM-ALAIKUM

BRO. ANUBIS I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE SAYING BUT LETS LOOK AT IT THIS WAY IF WE CAN FOR A MOMENT.

THE HON. ELIJAH MUHAMMAD SAID THAT THE FREEDOM, JUSTICE, AND EQUALITY COMING TO THE BLACK MAN AND WOMAN IN NORTH AMERICA
IS COMING TO US BY THE WAY OF THE DIVINE!

THE BLACK MAN AND WOMAN AFTER GETTING OVER AND EXPERIENCING SO-CALLED INTERGRATION, POLITICS, NATIONALISM WILL COME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT THERE ANSWER LAYS IN THE DIVINE. BUT THE DIVINE IS IN THE TEACHINGS OF THE HON. ELIJAH MUHAMMAD AND OUR UNDERSTANDING OF MASTER FARD MUHAMMAD.

THE HON. SISTER TYNEETA MUHAMMAD ENACTING ON HER DEEN TO ALLAH, MASTER FARD MUHAMMAD AND THE MESSENGER THE HON. ELIJAH MUHAMMAD FEELS COMPEL TO TEACH ON THE HIGHER PRINCIPLES OF ISLAM WITH REGARDS TO M.F.M. AND THE H.E.M. AS IT POINTS TO WHAT IS CALLED THE SUN PATH OR HOW WE ARE TO FOLLOW A UNIQUE PATH POINTED OUT IN THE SANDS OF TIME THAT THE SUN ITSELF FOLLOWS WHICH THE SCIENTIST DESCRIBE AS A CELESTIAL SPHERE/OSIRIS OR THE TRIBE OF SHABAZZ.

THE HON ELIJAH MUHAMMAD SAID THAT THE SUN MAKES A COMPLETE REVOLUTION EVERY TWENTY-FIVE YEARS I BELIEVE IT IS THE PURPOSE OR THE WILLINGNESS OF SIS TYNETTA MUHAMMAD TO EXPLAIN HOW WE ARE TO LIVE IN ACCORDANCE TO THE TEACHINGS OF THE HON. ELIJAH MUHAMMAD WHICH IS ISLAM. WHERE WE ARE TO NOW COME INTO THE CIRCLE BY WHICH ALL NATIONS HAVE RECEIVED THEIR UNDERSTANDING OF THE WAY OF LIFE THAT ALLAH HAS DECREED IN THE UNIVERSE WHICH IS ISLAM SINCE WEVE BEEN IN EVERYTHING BUT PEACE AMONGST OURSELVES AND OTHERS.

REMEMBER THE QURAN SAYS THAT IT HAS COMPLETED ITS FAVOR TO YOU AND I IN SHOWING US A PATH TO RIGHTEOUSNESS OR INTO COMPLETE SUBMISSION TO THE ORIGINATOR OF THE NEW HEAVEN AND EARTH THAT WILL BE RESSURECTED BECAUSE OF THE COMING OF THE SON OF MAN PUTTING YOU AND I BACK ON TOP!
Postby Rashid in Los Angeles » Sat Apr 05, 2003 6:33 pm
As-Salaam-Alaikum: To The Followers Of The Honorable Elijah Muhammad.



Now Brothers let me say first that I am not backing up all of the foolishness that Lazy Man Bernard Cusheer is putting out. And I am not on the side of none of what that number 19 teaching woman Tynetta says. But what I am saying is that the Messenger never did Die on Feb. 25, 1975. He has to get the secound half of his Mission from Allah Master Fard Muhammad the Great Mahdi! There is nothing spooky about this, we are realist, we deal in real thing. This is in the Messenger's teaching. If you never have herd of this, then maybe you have not studied like you should have. It is all through out the Scriptures and in the Messenger teachings that he is the Lamb of God. The Lamb of God is the one who Fights Gods Battle against Satan. He is the one who Defeats the Devil in the War of Armageddon. Allah did kill Pharoah, but it was Moses's hand that was willing the Staff. As the Bible said about the Lamb of God "I am he that was once dead, but I am alive for ever more and I have the Keys to Hell and death in my hand". Now we know that the Honorable Elijah Muhammad one day will Die. But the Scriptures say no one will know when he dies, and no one will know where his grave is! If the Moses's history in the Bible is our histoty here in Amreica. Then show me Where is the time when the Messeger left us for 40 years? When was there a time in the Nation of Islam when the people said that the Messenger was Dead? You have to look at The Theology of Time, in there the Messenger Said That he Had Met With Allah Master Fard Muhammad this September Past, And Allah Had Two Books For Him. One For The Black Man And Woman Of America, And Another One For The Orthodox Muslims Of The East. The Messenger Said That Allah Master Fard Muhammad Wrote Those Two Books Himself, And They Are For The People Of The Hereafter. Then The Messenger Said That They Were In Arabic And He Knew Only One Word In It Then. Then Allah Master Fard Muhammad Took Them Back And Said" I Will Give Them To You When You Learn Arabic"!

Now the Honorable Elijah Muhammad did not know Arabic when he was among us. Was Allah telling him somthing that he knew was not going to come true? What you are saying is that Allah does not Know the Future, and he is not the all knowing one. The Messenger said that Allah did not waste words, what did he tell the Messenger this for Fun, to make a Joke? No Allah knows what we don't know, and he tells his Messenger. This is where we get this from, it is there All Over The Theology of Time If you Just Listen! The Messenger Said in The Theology Time That "He Was Going To Take Us Away From Our Foster Father Then I Am Going To Kill Him"! This is in The Theology Of Time, this is not my words They Are The Messengers. When the Messenger teaches us he want's us to think, this is why he gave us the Problem Book and the Lesson, we must think! By the way, the only one who seen this So-Called body was that No-Good Hypocrite Wallace D Mohammad according to the Undertaker in his Book! No one seen this body but that Hypocrite Wallace D. Mohammad the FBI's Number One Man. All of the Prophets of God Left, but they came back to finish their Mission that Allah give Them. The Messenger Seen This Coming And Told Some Of This Minister, That They Would Have A Body And A Funeral, But It Would Not Be Him! They Had Planed His Death His Enemies, But Allah Had Shown Him How He Would Get Out Of It. Minister Farrkhan Brought This Out To Los Angeles In 1973 and Taught It off the Rostrum. Also that Wicked No-Good Vicious Hypocrite Abdul Karriem who was the Minister of Los Angeles at that time also taught this off of the Rostrum. You had other Minister's at this Meaning. Min. Farrakhan, That Vicious Hypocrite Abdul Karriem, National Secretary John Ali, Min. John Muhammad of San Francisco at the time, who is now in Chicago. Min Jeremiah Shabazz, Min. T. Hamzah all of these Brothers were at this meeting with the Messenger.

In Islamic Jewdence Purdence says that you must have four witnesses to prove something I gave you Six, and there are more Ministers that was there. Now Bernard Cushmeer Knew that the Messenger was going to leave us in 1973 he was in front of temple No. 27 up and down the street telling anyone who would listen that it was time for the Messenger to leave did you or anyone else know that this was going to take place? Either you belive in the scriptures or not, the scriptures say that the children of Isreal wondered in the wilderness for 40 years with out divine guidence. This is the time in history that this is happening we are wondering in the wilderness and we will wonder until Allah sends Moses to kill Pharoah. This whole Question goes to one belief in the Honorable Elijah Muhammad as being the Last Messenger of Allah. If one truly believes that then there is no Question to where the Messenger is, if one does not, then there is nothing no one can say to convince you of this. All we can say is we will see at the End of the White Man's World.


As-Salaam-Alaikum: To The Believers




Your Brother
Rashid in Los Angeles

Postby Anubis X » Sat Apr 05, 2003 7:25 pm
Neither Bernard Cushmeer (Jabril) ,Tynetta, Bro Farrakhan or anyone else has been able to offer any proof of the assertion that the HEM is still physically alive. Therefore it falls into the category of a belief,something that can not be substantiated with fact. This again is similar to the christian tale. Unless shown different I do not feel required to believe in that which is in my estimation, most unreasonable.
Postby Rashid in Los Angeles » Sat Apr 05, 2003 7:56 pm
As-Salaam-Alaikum: To The Muslim



My Brother, All Of The Messenger teaching are based on Scriptures, and what the Saviour told him. I cannot prove that Master Fard Muhammad is still alive, all we have is the Messenger Word of this, and that is Good enough for Me. As I said before It is a Question of Belief, and do one believe that he is the Last Messenger of Allah. Let take a Different View of this, Prove that he is not with Master Fard Muhammad, can you prove that? The White Mans Logic says that a man cannot live as long as Master Fard Muhammad 126 years. But the Messenger said that Gods can live 1,000 year. Do you believe this is true, yes or no? You are thing like the Devil taught use to think, Limited in our thinking. But the Messenger teaches us that the Saviour Master Fard Muhammad taught him that nothing is Impossible. The White Man says that he is the Greatest Power on Earth. But the Messenger said that Allah and the Nation of Islam is the Greatest Power on Earth, now I cannot prove that Yet, but Allah will Prove that soon!


As-Salaam-Alaikum: To The Believers




Your Brother
Rashid in Los Angeles

Postby Anubis X » Sun Apr 06, 2003 12:09 pm
Bro Rashid ,I appreciate what you say if I understand you correctly, however, many people believe in the teachings of Mr Muhammad and do not necessarily believe him to be alive. This idea ,chiefly heralded by Bernard Cushmeer(Jabril) should not be presumed as a requirement for belief in the teachings of the HEM.
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